In our first episode of More To Tell™, we rewind the wonderfully accidental origin story of Tell Me More® and how it turned into the agency it is today.
Founder Joel Sanders and Director of Partnerships Noelle Caliguri look back at how Joel’s wife and Co-Founder Angelika Ilina grew a one-woman shop into an organic-first agency built on deep client partnerships, creative experimentation, and content algorithms can’t resist. From road-trip client meetings to unexpected growth spurts, they share the early moments that shaped the way TMM works today.
Joel also unpacks why evocative branding matters and how the team’s core values — keep it playful, make it beautiful, go to eleven, be here now, and surrender to what is — fuel both the work and the culture. This opening episode sets the tone for a podcast centered on honest conversations, cultural insights, and the real behind-the-scenes journey of a team learning and growing together.
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Notes & Transcript
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Welcome to More To Tell™
Noelle: Hello and welcome to the very first episode of More To Tell™, brought to you by TELL ME MORE®, a marketing agency that helps brands organically grow through stories people want to read, watch and share. My name is Noelle, Director of Partnerships at TELL ME MORE and co-host of today’s show, along with our founder, Joel Sanders. Joel. take it away.
Joel: Yeah, thanks for the intro, Noelle. But today we actually. You guys happen to to get on this, show at exactly the right time, because today we actually decided to change the name of our agency. We are no longer. Tell me more. We are. We tell you the marketing agency for the seventies and beyond. Uh, because it happens to be that we’re recording this on Halloween, and our whole team is dressed in disco, as you can see. But, anyway, so today is not a typical marketing podcast, and this isn’t going to be a typical marketing podcast. We will have plenty of peeks behind the curtain. And we’ll only be sharing topics that are really genuine from our team, stuff that we know that’s really working. So we’re going to be talking about testing processes that work for our clients, the ones that have failed. and we’ll be using this platform really to show up authentically. I mean, this is who we are. It’s one of our values, which we’ll be talking about a little bit later on. But some of these conversations will be like this one with Noelle and I just kind of bantering back and forth. Others are going to be roundtable discussions, so we’ll have more members of the team collaborating that way. And we’ll also be doing a monthly culture hour. And that’s that’s a lot of fun, because we get to bring in different people from the team and become a cultural interpreter, or we become cultural interpreters for people who are watching here. And more than just us kind of telling you what’s happening in culture, showing you how we approach what’s understanding and culture so that you can do that for yourselves. So, yeah. So what do we have? Where do we go from here? Noelle.
Noelle: Yeah, that sounds great.
How TMM Began
Noelle: I appreciate that context. Joel. so for today’s episode, I really want to just go back to the beginning. Tell Me More. Is now this thriving boutique marketing agency working with some amazing national brands and food, education and wellness. But it didn’t start that way. So take us back. What sparked the idea for Tell Me More?
Joel: Yeah, so it wasn’t as much of a spark as it was. As so often happens in entrepreneurship, a bit of an accident and timeliness. But I brought another prop because I’m somebody who likes props.
Noelle: I love it.
Joel: We have these. Little sticky notes, which are drawings that I made, a couple of years ago, as kind of a joke. As I was talking with Angelika and Mo, our other partner, about, you know, who are we and why do we do what we do? And so the notes actually tell the story. They go this way, and I’ll just kind of run through them very quickly. But this thing really started with Angelika. She worked alone in an agency by another name for a long, long time. I told her that marketing agencies were bad ideas and they’re not good businesses. Um, well, I guess that’s a little bit getting ahead of myself, but, she was working by herself. She met me. Who? She tells me I’m the man of her dreams. And so, uh, we fell in love. And then I told her that marketing agencies are bad businesses, and I worked on a whole bunch of other things. Eventually some of those other things didn’t work out, and her agency was still thriving. And so she convinced me, as good marketers do, to help her grow her agency. So this is us, going on the road, and we really did go on the road, to different cities and literally so as soon as we, most of our clients never wanted to see us in person. So I’ll give you an example of how we saw, we got to see all the clients that we wanted to is we had, for example, one client in Detroit and one in Chicago, and neither one of them really wanted to see us. So what we did is we called up the one in Detroit and we already had our tickets booked. So we were planning on doing this and we said, hey, we’re going to be in the area, meaning Chicago, Detroit. I think there are only about four hundred miles apart or maybe two hundred in the area compared to Colorado. and we told them we were going to be in the area. And so, you know, since we’re in the area seeing clients, would you be interested in seeing us? And, anyway, both of those clients agreed. We did that with a number of other clients as well. But it’s just a way for us to, to get out and actually see the clients face to face, because this was even pre-COVID, people didn’t want to see us face to face, but that was us going to see those clients face to face. And in those meetings, we were able to, basically grow the business. So FaceTime actually meeting with clients in person, really helped us to display some of the strategic expertise that we’ve got. Um, the agency grew. We need to hire more people. So this is our third partner, Mo, who came on board. And then we got really, really good. Like, as we like to say, at creating graphs that go up and to the right. And so, what marketing agencies are truly about is coming up with ways of getting those graphs going up to the right, because that’s what everybody wants to see. So How is that for understanding how we how we came about?
Noelle: I think that’s very fitting for TMM. Um, assuming you guys weren’t dressed up when you went to see your clients.
Joel: No, that would have been a lot of fun though. Absolutely.
Noelle: Well that’s great. I love that you started this with Angelika. Um, was there a gap you saw in the market? And, how did how did you solve that?
Joel: No. So again, like, we didn’t really see anything in advance. I think we discovered gaps as we went along, meaning that, when you get close to clients, as we did in these, you know, face to face meetings and then lots of follow up types of meetings. We were able to show how we could think about things in ways that they just weren’t. And so I think that’s what makes us a little bit different from a lot of agencies, is we people don’t just hire us to get traffic or to work on conversion rate optimization or something like that. We literally we want to become a strategic partner, like an extension of of the marketing team itself, so that we can truly understand, how are you creating your product? How deep can we get into the early phases of coming up with product ideas or service ideas? Because we can influence that as well and help our clients, um, improve the initial structure of what it is that they’re putting together. And so, so we’re not just, again, like a vendor that only does traffic, or only does CRO or only does anything else. We literally want to get very, very deep into the strategic workings of our client partners and that, you know, selfishly, for us, it enables us to be more difficult to let go of because we are such an integrated part of everything that they’re doing.
Noelle: I was just going to say, I feel, oh, there’s someone in the background. Um, you know, as someone who’s been with TMM for over three years, I feel like we’re so integrated with our clients. We’re constantly collaborating with them, talking to them every day via email, phone calls, you know, video calls. So it feels like we’re kind of part of the family, if you will, which is really nice. Um, yeah, it’s more authentic. Um, so let’s go back to the name. Tell me more. It’s such a beautiful invitation. Was that intentional? I, I know the name has changed today, but.
Joel: Yes, yes, we tell you? Yeah. So, look, I’ve always found it kind of ironic how many creative agencies are like, you know, um. Johnson. whatever. Johnson markinson marketing. Right? It’s like, really like you’re a creative agency and that’s what you can come up with. They have the most boring names imaginable. And so I really wanted something that truly felt creative, something that made people creative before they even knew what we were doing. So from the start, I wanted something that is an evocative name. And I’ll tell you about that in a second. But something that’s evocative stirs imagination. It gets the imagination going rather than just describing something, which is what a lot of names do. Right. So around two thousand and nine or ten and this is going way back in the day, um, I’ve been a serial entrepreneur. I’ve worked on lots of different businesses. is. And when I had to come up with a name for a product or service, I came across this name brand naming framework from an agency called ignite. And what I really liked about that agency is, they had a great way of describing the types of brands, brand names that there are. They came up with seven types. There’s descriptive, evocative, invented, lexical, acronym, geographical or founder. Right. And so I won’t go through all of them. But a descriptive name, would just be something like, Bob’s cement. Right. It’s, it’s actually a combination of, of the founder and a descriptive, but it’s just a straightforward. The great thing about descriptive names is you can’t mistake what it is, right. You know exactly what it is, but it leaves nothing to the imagination. And to the extent that we’re working on those under the hood, emotions that really pull the people, having a great name can be one of the best investments you ever make. Some some examples of evocative names. Apple. Apple computers. Like. Who would have thought to put those two things together? But then you think, oh, the apple sitting on the teacher’s desk. And, you know, this kind of in the early stages, it was really about education was their target market. And so Apple computers made a lot of sense. It also made computers much more approachable than something like Microsoft or International Business Machines. Right. Something that sounds, intimidating because people back then, as they are today, often intimidated by technology. Uh, Nike is another great name, right? Another evocative name, as you’re thinking about, shoes, you know, pairing that with shoes. Greyhound buses. Right. Another really cool, evocative name. Even the buses themselves, when you look at them, they’re long and skinny and gray like a Greyhound. And so these names, when they are done well, they do something like that. And you find that there’s all of this extra dimension to it that, that you can’t get, obviously, with just a straight up descriptive type of name. So in thinking about how do we do this for tell me more. At that time we were presence LLC, which is a value that we have presence and, but could potentially be a name. And we considered it as a potential name. But there was a former business partner of mine and a super creative thinker who worked, ironically enough, for Microsoft. But people don’t think of as a creative company. They’re incredibly creative, I have to tell you. But this guy was a ridiculously creative strategic thinker, and he would he describes creativity as like, you’re trying to climb up a waterfall. So imagine like a waterfall coming straight down and these ropes of water that are coming and, and, what most people do when they’re approaching a creative topic is they try going and grabbing on to the, to the water as it’s rushing down and trying to, you know, to climb it like a rope. And obviously it doesn’t work, because you’re going against this just massive rush of where the real creative energy is going. And so what do you have to do when you’re trying to climb a waterfall? Well, you have to find the trail on the side. So now you’re walking away from the goal, right? You have to maybe go in the wrong direction for miles and miles and miles, and eventually you make you you lose sight of the of the river entirely. And then you make your way eventually up to the top. And so that’s kind of how creativity works. It’s not directional. And it’s really hard to find the right way to turn when you’re coming up with something like this. So anyway, after months of, of brainstorming and coming up with a lot of really bad names, honestly, because when you come up, when you’re looking for evocative names, they they tend to be bad most of the time. And that’s the danger. It’s like, oh, it’s evocative. Was like, yeah, but it’s kind of dumb. I remember just asking myself one day, you know, what is it that we want to evoke from our clients or our clients clients when they encounter their, their marketing that we put together? And the most powerful thing that you can get anybody who’s engaging with marketing materials is what? Tell me more. Right. I want to know more. And why tell me more? Because that’s what comes just prior to taking action. It’s that pivotal moment in marketing that, uh, where somebody’s like, okay, I need to know more here. Tell me more. And that’s when they’re willing to opt in. Uh, click the button, take the quiz, whatever it is that you’re trying to get them to do. So and then there’s obviously there’s so many other so much more dimensionality about that because there’s always more to know, as there is in any relationship with a brand, to learn more about it. So that’s how that’s how. Tell me more came about.
Noelle: That’s great. I love that evolution and coming from presence to tell me more, it just it really makes a lot of sense. Um, so you you started with this vision, how did you go from concept to your first clients? And what were those early wins that validated you were on to something more?
Joel: Well, again, so the story is it’s not so much about this big vision as much as that we had in advance, as much as one that we were creating as we took the steps forward. I think that’s much more accurate way to describe how vision happens. I think most people mistakenly like when they think in the past. Oh, I had this idea of of what I really wanted and it was crystal clear. And then I started building the business towards that. I think if you ask most entrepreneurs, when they honestly answer, they’ll say no. There were a lot of happy accidents that happened along the way. And so, with us, that was absolutely the truth. We happened to launch this thing, during COVID and we launched it because of COVID. If Covid hadn’t happened, I probably would have continued in a separate business that I was working on at that time that failed because of COVID. And so since we had COVID, and Angelika was busy in her business and I’d been helping her, on the side part time for, for quite some time, it was all hands on deck to try to work on the business together. And so, that was really it was it was the need. And what was happening in COVID with all these businesses were closed. Now, where is everybody selling digital, right? And we had a couple of clients who they just happened to be really well poised to take advantage of only selling on digital because it competed against a lot of brick and mortar types of operations. And so that really, you know, that happy accident helped us to grow like crazy. the hard part was us, the two of us figuring out, you know, what do we do? Because this was the business that she started. And I came in and started doing what I typically do, which is I break things. And, I knew that for us, for us to grow, we had to do things differently. I’ve run decently larger businesses and divisions of fortune five hundred companies and things like that. So I knew we had to make some changes. And as you can imagine, when you start something and then somebody else comes into it and says, oh no, we have to do things differently. You know, this entirely different way. We’re doing everything wrong. I wasn’t saying those things, but that’s what she was hearing. It created a lot of tension and difficulty, but, um, eventually what we figured out was I’m pretty good at the strategic thinking part, the collaborating with clients, really understanding what they’re trying to do, seeing what those clients aren’t necessarily seeing themselves and having the discussion with them about opportunities that they’re not seeing that would what that would lead to more investment in us, selfishly. But obviously they’re getting a huge return on that additional investment. So we were able to really grow with the clients. A lot of the foundational clients that she had already had and helped those businesses grow, get bigger budget as a result and continue growing that way and scaling that way. But again, I’m good at identifying those opportunities. I’m not so good at actually doing those things. And Angelika is the implementer, right? ideas at the end of the day are dime a dozen. Getting an idea done is where the real difficult work takes place. And, and thank goodness for Angelika, because she’s that operations person that just knows how to take the idea and turn it into something real.
Organic First
Noelle: Oh, I can vouch for that wholeheartedly. I mean, Angelika is the queen of asana, and organization. I mean, I’ve worked for a few agencies and I’ve never seen more organization than TMM. It’s unparalleled. Really? Yeah. But, um, talk to me about how the the team has grown, because, again, I started, you know, a little over three years ago. And I’ve really seen us expand. I mean, we have people working with us all over the world remotely. And, there’s a great collaboration, you know, even though we’re we’re all working kind of separately, you know, there’s there’s a culture there. So talk to me more about that.
Joel: So part of this again and this didn’t come instantly. We used to do like kind of the, the full gamut of of what advertising agencies do. Right? Like paid advertising and the organic search and SEO and everything. And, what we realized was we’re we’re much more interested. And I think we’re a lot better at doing the non-paid types of activities. And so what we’ve become is an organic first marketing agency where we do, earned types of media. Right. So we’re writing blogs that get picked up in, by Google. We’re helping clients create videos that, get seen on social. And, then we’re complements of the paid team. And there’s, there’s other agencies that we work with in partnership who do all the paid advertising for our clients. But it was that I think it was that realization that, hey, we’re going to focus on the earned media side of things. That really allowed us to get creative and do some of these more interesting and deeper projects. So obviously, we’re running a podcast for one of our biggest clients. Noelle, you’re you’re in charge of that, helping to create partnerships. we’ve, placed a spokesperson for a client. Um, so these sorts of things that, uh, that most people don’t know how to do in-house, we’re set up for because we’ve got this kind of expertise, this, this ability to, to reach out and get those sorts of things done. And then we have the obviously, we have the writing team, uh, which is really good at creating these in-depth, well-researched articles. I, I feel for the people who turned their, their writing over to AI because, uh, they’re getting crushed right now. They’re losing all of their traffic. We never we never took that bait, realizing that, that Google will and the LLMs will not appreciate. Only LLM generated content. We use AI to help us in structuring content, researching all sorts of things. But at the end of the day, you have to have humans writing stuff and you have to have humans producing things like we’re doing here in this podcast, because that’s what those LLMs are hungry for. New expert human generated content is the game. And so we’re really good at helping our clients do that.
Our Values
Noelle: Yep. Yeah. Creating that novelty content that that’s where everything is shifting. Um, I was going to ask you, you know, has Tell Me More matured over time? Are you doing what you set out to do or has the mission shifted? But I think you kind of already addressed that. I mean, it’s.
Joel: Yeah, I mean, again, like, there wasn’t a big mission up front. You know, one thing that actually I did want to say is, with my other prop here is we do we do have a set of values that we actually take seriously. And most businesses, they’ve got a set of values and they sit up on the wall and nobody ever talks about them again. But, I mean, you’ve been here for a few years, Noelle, helping us out and and, you know, like, we we actually take these things seriously. We talk about going to eleven, keeping it playful. Right. And we really try to live these things. And I think this comes from a deep seeded belief, not just in me but in Angelika. And I think the people that we attract, I used to say early on, you know, the business is really just an excuse for us to have these connections with one another. And I really believe that, like, we could be doing all sorts of different things in life. We have to get money in our bank accounts to pay bills and do those sorts of things. But at the end of the day, it’s not that we do that to achieve, something else. What we’re doing really is we we need an excuse to come together so that we can kind of enjoy one another and push each other, you know, to to become better at what we do. It’s one of the beauties in life is to or one of the. The great things in life is to become good and skilled at something. And so we do appreciate that opportunity to help each other out in that way, but also to be playful, to make beautiful things. I’ll just hold up the the I’m looking down at the the other prop here. So these are the values. Yep. Keep it playful. Make it beautiful. Go to eleven. Be here now and surrender to what is. And again I won’t go into all of those obviously here, but those sorts of values and the themes come out in different ways as we’re doing the work, and they really help guide us. They help give us a reason to be here. Beyond just paying the bills. so that we can live for something higher than just ourselves. Right. That’s that’s ultimately what it’s all about.
Noelle: And I had the honor of kind of experiencing that firsthand because I’m based in San Diego, California, and you guys are in Puerto Rico. And so if you a few years ago, you guys invited me out to the company retreat. And, that was a week, right? Spending time together. And I keep saying family, but that’s the word that comes up. It just felt like family. And, we kept it playful. We went out to dinner every night together as a team, and we did these really kind of creative workshops, not just talking about client work, but our our own personal goals. And I just remember I left that retreat feeling super refreshed and reinvigorated and, just another level of excitement to work with everyone. Uh, so that was really.
Joel: We’re gonna have to do another one here pretty soon. I’m actually actually was literally thinking about this, like, we really need to have another retreat.
Why We’re Starting a Podcast
Noelle: I would love that. Sign me up. Uh. But. Okay. I want to I want to get to the podcast because that’s why we’re here. so we’re we’re sitting here recording this right now. Tell Me More has been around since two thousand twenty one. We’ve got great clients. We’re doing the work. But why? Why start a podcast now?
Joel: Yeah. So obviously we already run one for our clients, and, so why not run a second one for ourselves? One of the things that we’re realizing is, well, first of all, we haven’t done for ourselves what we do for our clients. We’ve watched our clients grow and grow and grow and make far more money. And yet we have really just been growing those clients and not growing ourselves. And this is a step in that direction to truly make an investment in ourselves so that we can grow ourselves. And one of the ways that you grow, obviously, is you create content. You get it out there in the wild, particularly when you’re an organic first agency like us. You need a lot of content and you’d be publishing all the time. And so one of the fastest ways to create content is doing this sort of discussion. And so a podcast gives you an organized way to have a discussion, but agencies can do kind of how the culture hour started with, uh, with us. Noelle. We just have business meetings where we talk about culture, and we recorded it. And out of those conversations, we say, guess, you know, you might not believe. We say intelligent things to one another that make for interesting clips that can be shared on social media. And, if the right eyes and ears come across those clips, they’ll maybe come to the website and check us out and then maybe they’ll want to know more. So yeah, so it’s really about creating content that’s organized and structured. The podcast itself will be something that will be interesting for people to listen to. In areas of marketing over time, particularly organic first marketing, which will be a recurring theme here. Uh, but also, to get those video clips out there in the wild, those little short clips that, raise awareness of our brand.
Noelle: Right. And you already alluded to this kind of at the top of the episode, but this isn’t your typical marketing podcast. We’re doing things a little bit differently. So could you give us a little preview of. Yeah, I mean, we could see it, right? We’re doing things differently. So can you give us a little preview of what kind of topics we’re going to cover?
Joel: So yeah. So one of them again is culture. For any marketing company or brand to take advantage of the full opportunity, you have to stay on top of what’s happening in culture. Things are moving so quickly. A great example in our Culture Hour we have a specific thirty to sixty minutes set aside to talk about culture. Somebody on the team who I wasn’t expecting to say it brought up a recent trend on TikTok. Uh helped me out, Noelle. Well, if I if I get this wrong, but it was around the idea of, a artist who had released a number of different versions of a song, and, each one of those versions had a group associated with it. And it turns out that Group Seven was the one that was the winner. Right. It went viral like thirty million, fifty million views, something like that. And so because of that, uh, you know, she said, this is Group Seven and here’s this song, and that song went, you know, obviously very successful. The concept of Group Seven became a meme on TikTok for a time. And so this came up from a member on our team, and it was that week that it was happening. And so that’s the sort of thing that, you know, you can combine a brand with this Group Seven idea and potentially get some attention that you might not get otherwise. So that’s the importance of culture. And Noelle, you shared a similar idea with this 6- 7 ideas meme that the kids had in schools for a while.
Noelle: I’m embarrassed that I discovered that watching a South Park episode. But it’s very, very millennial of me.I guess.
Joel: South Park is brilliant at this. I mean, those guys, why is that show so successful? Because they’ve been on top of the zeitgeist for a long, long time. So culture is one of the primary pillars for us to explore on this podcast. The other one is, organic itself, right? The idea that algorithms know your audience better than you do, and it’s just the truth. Algorithms know our audience of CMOs and marketing directors and marketing vice presidents. The algorithms are way smarter on that target audience than we are. Our mission is to keep releasing content like this, so that we will hopefully get this content in front of those VP’s and CMOs and directors in a way that that raises their attention in some of the industries that we serve, like higher education and food and some of these other industries, wellness as well. So, yeah, so the organic first approach, uh, with the cultural zeitgeist, and just really understanding the platforms, there’s a final one that is, I was calling vice for a while, but it’s not quite right. So why vice? Well, these vices like, lust and greed and gluttony, sloth, are motivators. They’re these deep motivators that are somewhat shameful for us, but they actually do motivate humans. And, keeping in mind the vices when you’re doing marketing is a not very politically correct, but very powerful way of thinking creatively. Again, you know, this is this is part of that, uh, climbing water. You’re not climbing up the waterfall and going straight to the virtues. You realize, oh, the vices are actually a path to a virtuous thing. And so that’s why we we talk about them. But, I turned vices into story because it’s really the stories that we tell that include the vices, that include the challenges that include the pursuit of a virtuous ideal that I think at the deepest levels resonates with people. And it’s the type of marketing that we want to do anyway. We’re not going to, we’re having some fun here today with, The marketing agencies in the seventies, we imagined there was a lot of smoking going on in the office. So I literally went out and bought these twenty five bucks for two packs of cigarettes. I mean, I will never market these. But, because this is truly a vice that is, is marketed, but understanding why do people want that? Right. Understanding what draws people to that is a powerful way of understanding the forces that we don’t like to talk about, that truly motivate people to make purchases. And as long as we have a proper set of values. Right. These things that I was talking about earlier about having and we really make those ideals, we can use those human tendencies in a positive way, and grow business, obviously. We are here primarily for the mission of helping people make money. But again, it’s about making money wise for an excuse to be able to come together, and the type of relationship that we have with one another, we truly have with our clients as well. And I think you would agree with that, Noelle. Right. Like the the type of people that we engage with, the type of conversations that we have, the close relationships, it feels like an extended family with those clients too. So obviously this doesn’t. Again, it is at the end of the day we got to perform and we understand that we got to go to eleven. That is one of our values too. So if a client’s asking for a ten, we always hit an eleven for them. We make that attempt. But, but yeah. So, long winded, but I’ll just summarize real quick culture, really understanding what’s happening in culture. Algorithms. They know your clients better than you do. And story how do you connect with people, through their vices, through their goals, the sorts of things that they’re working on for themselves? How do we do that in a way that helps to make your business be the one that they try to do business with.
Noelle: Love it. I think you sum that up perfectly. I’m I’m personally really excited about the culture hours because it’s something we already do internally. And then we’re going to let our listeners in on this process. And you’ll be able to hear from other team members. And it’s interesting to see kind of which what trends they bring to the table, because we all have different algorithms. So we’re all seeing different types of content.
Joel: So we’re all different ages, different generations. Right. So, you know, some people are more into TikTok, some people more into LinkedIn. So what’s happening on these various platforms and what are the trends that we’re seeing? So when we come together and share that stuff, it’s pretty exciting. And this is a journey, right? We we are expert in the things that we do, but we don’t pretend. We’re not pretend experts. Right? We fully admit we have a lot to learn. And part of the reason we are working on these cultural things is because we have a ton to learn in how to understand and use culture to grow brands, including our own. And so what you get to see as we’re sharing the story is our journey, the things that we do wrong and the things that work out. And we’re open books. We share what works. We always think that it’s best to be honest about what’s working. We don’t want to cover those things up because, let’s face it, we most often learn more from failures than we do from the successes.
Noelle: So what do you hope our listeners can glean from from this podcast? I think you covered covered a lot, but.
Joel: Yeah, we really went into it. I mean, first of all, we got to practice. And so I would say whenever you’re doing something new in marketing or in business or in life and you want to do something, just take that first step, right. We weren’t really ready for this, were we? You know, I mean, we got as ready as we could be. But it was more important for us to take action and actually do our first episode. And so if it’s a little bit rough around the edges then yeah, we understand that. And that’s that’s fine. That’s how how it should be for that first episode. So that’s the first thing, being playful about it and not taking yourself too seriously. I really wish more businesses would have keep it playful as even if it’s not an explicit value, something that’s internalized, life is just too short to take everything too seriously. You know, we’re not curing cancer here. And even if you are curing cancer, there’s plenty of moments to laugh along the way, right? So keeping it playful, having those values, remembering that we, are in business not only for the purpose of making money, but to truly come together as humans and enjoy our time together because, um, you know, why not? We spend most of our days working. We might as well enjoy the people that we’re around. And then I guess the final thing just being this. Remember, algorithms know your audience better than you do. This is organic. First marketing, stories, understanding humanity. The vices, the things that we are shameful about are often some of the things that are the most powerful levers that we have in marketing to use. Don’t be afraid to use them. Just use them ethically and in the right way. And the results will come.
Noelle: Excellent. Well, I think that kind of wraps up the show. I appreciate your insights, Joel. I’m so excited to be part of this podcast. And thank you so much for joining us for the first episode of More To Tell. Visit tellmemore.co to learn more about our work and this podcast, including show notes, links, and other resources. And if you like this episode, we encourage you to subscribe so you never miss a conversation, as well as follow us on our social media channels at Tell Me More. Co,
Noelle: Thanks for listening.
Joel: Thanks everybody.
